Sunday Morning Chat: South Dade Manager Fred Burnside

Fred Burnside has been a fixture in Miami-Dade dugouts for more than 40 years. Coach Burnside began his coaching career at Killian in 1969. Burnside got his head coaching start at Miami Southridge, and then fluctuated between college and high school coaching over the next 30 years, spending time at Miami-Dade College, back at Southridge, and then at Southern Louisiana. For the past five years, Burnside has been the manager at South Dade. This week, he sat down with me for our first-ever Miami-Dade Sunday morning chat. Enjoy…

Anthony: Being around Miami high school baseball for as long as you have, tell me a little bit about how you see the game has changed at the high school level from where you started to where it is now.

Coach Burnside: Well it’s changed dramatically. The private school/charter school thing has changed everything. The talent level is not nearly what it used to be. It’s more spread out. You know, the private schools pick off you know the top arms usually. Parents more and more today, because of the publicity about the school system — they started grading schools — they think, “Well it’s an F school it must be an F everything there….we got to get out of there.” It’s a climate that the system created itself. So it is, it’s a big difference from what it used to be.

Anthony: Speaking on the parents a little bit. How much do you think travel ball has changed the high school game itself? I talked to Coach Doskow about this, how parents are being fed a lot of stuff about the travel programs and the travel coaches that may or may not be true about their kids. How much effect do you think that has on your job as a high school coach?

Coach Burnside: Well quite a bit. There are so many coach who are their gonna tell a parent what they want to hear and they’re making money. And this stuff in the summer, not that there’s not some talented kids because there are. And parents are willing to pay that. They play weekend series and if they lose Friday night their gonna play Saturday. They get pitchers to drive up or fly in and if they lose Saturday they’re gonna play a double header Sunday and they’re happy and it’s just all about how may hits they get. They lose a little bit as far as being a competitor. I think it’s different because of that. Even some of the college coaches I’ve talked to recognize that. But still there’s enough talented kids we’ve spoiled as a result, spoiled college recruiters. And as far as the professional scouts, they could sit in Atlanta for two weeks and see the 18 and under National Wood Bat Tournament and then the next week the 16 and under. And so what if they miss a kid down in Homestead, Florida because there’s enough kids around. So it’s becoming a country club sport because of that. If you don’t have the money to afford the travel ball. And if I was a young coach breaking in, I don’t blame them.

I’d do that because that’s the only way you can really sustain it is to get involved with that. That’s what the parents want. The old camp where, you know it was a summer camp I used to, I ran a summer camp over there for years. I was more of a, you know there was baseball of course, but it wasn’t hard core. We didn’t compete, we had the coach-pitch. We had fun and it was a, shoot I used to pack in a couple hundred every session. But now the parents want them to get 50 ground balls and play competitively. The whole climate has changed in that regard. I don’t know if it’s bad or not. Eddie and I have talked. I’m on a committee, I’m on the High School All American Selection Committee and the great thing about that gig is that they fly me in and we meet every year during the College World Series. So I get to go up and there’s seven of us, I represent four states and we hammer out an All American team. First, second, third team and some other things. But, the California guy said to me that he had two kids in his club that signed with Division I schools and he did not speak to one coach at any of those schools. It was all done through the travel team. So I’m afraid we could be dinosaurs before much longer. I hope not.

Anthony: Well that’s what Coach Doskow was saying. I actually speak to a lot of coaches in all three counties about that, that have that feeling. From my point of view, a little bit is seeing that…I see kinda the other way where as the travel ball situation is gonna pop because what I’m getting from a lot of the parents is they’re done paying the amount of money they have to pay to put their kids up on these teams. Do you see that as a possibility too? Or are you more along the lines of, in 10 years everything is going to be geared towards the travel ball?

Coach Burnside: It’s gonna be interesting. I hope you’re right but I kinda think that there’s enough parents with money that it’s gonna fly and there’s a lot of big money. These summer coaches make, some of them, real good money in the summer. They could throw in some lingo that’s impressive and “Oh, he knows what he’s talking about!” And parents will shell it out. It’s amazing to me. But I don’t know, we’ll see. I hope you’re right.

Anthony: Hitting on one of the points that you hit on. One of the reasons we started these sites is if the elite are always seen and the elite go somewhere, but we felt like there was a lot of talent in South Florida that was being missed by colleges and a lot of opportunities. Do you ever think about the amount of opportunities that are being missed by kids who should be playing ball somewhere in college?

Coach Burnside: Well, sure. When they took the junior college baseball away — and I spent 11 years at Dade — there used to be three junior colleges here in Dade. South Dade, North Dade and Central Downtown. And I can remember being at district playoff games and all three teams are represented at that game and were all recruiting pretty much the same kids and kids had options. Now, I’ve got a kid playing out in Omaha, Nebraska that can play. Kids are getting forced to go out of South Florida to play. And yes, many are missed because there are enough players around that a kid really has to be willing to leave Miami. Now a lot of coaches not too far up North, I’m talking about the Carolinas, Georgia. You think there’s something wrong with him, why isn’t he at FIU or Miami or in Miami Dade. Well heck, Miami-Dade…I’ve been there. He relies on kids who don’t make it into Division I schools. That, “Ah that’s not for me!” And he grabs those. When Hertz was there, Hertz is a good friend of mine, I don’t blame him, I’d do the same thing. He went to South America. I mean he had kids all over the place and the local kid was left out there. Steve hated recruiting, he didn’t even come out. If you had a real stud, yeah. No, I think there’s a lot of kids that get missed and what you’re doing is great for the game. It can do nothing but enhance it. These coaches have access to stats and schedules and so forth. The greatest thing that I like, if I’ve got a kid that’s got an arm which I do this year I think some scouts will come to see him and as a result they’re going to see other kids. When I was at the college level I used to always ask the scout say “Hey, I’m looking for a short stop.” And “Hey, there’s a kid up at Taravella you should go see.” Boom. So the scouts, all the college coaches network with the scouts.

Anthony: Speaking a little bit about what we’re doing, when we first came into Miami in particular, people said it will never work down here. That Miami coaches are too guarded in who they trust. And it’s kind of an inner circle type thing. This year I’m seeing a big difference in the participation with the coaches and it seems like we’ve worked our way into that. But why do you think the Miami coaches in particular are so guarded with there trust and who they let around their programs?

Coach Burnside: I can’t speak for them, I just know this, the young coach Anthony, today, I hate to say it again, between you and me I think they think they know it all. We have Miami Baseball Forum that meets once a month Greg Berry, Charlie Green, we’d have guest speakers come in. And um, they get coaches to come. They’ve got it all figured out. I’m still learning, Charlie got guys that each would take a topic you know and get some guest speakers to come in. His pitching coach had some scouts that came in. I can’t explain it. And the other part is you can’t get coaches. It’s hard to get coaches. I’m dying I’ve got contract coaches. Guys that you know they’re meeting me here tonight. Last year and I do it somewhat this year, I’m a little better at it this year, I put my practice schedule on flash drive and wait to hear. A coach would say, “I can’t get there until 3:30 today.” Or “I gotta leave early.” I had to adjust the schedule during the day. Because you can’t get coaches that will give the time anymore. They get eaten up by the parents real quick. I have an advantage a little bit because I’ve been the game, most parents are a little stand offish to me. But young coach, they get eaten alive by these parents.

Anthony: That’s something that we hit on with Coach Doskow. It seems like the young coaches come in with a lot of fire and a lot of aggression. As time goes on the personalities kind of change. Do you think with the young coaches it’s a direct relation to the fact that the parents have more input these days so the coaches have to be more assertive and have to be louder to feel like their more in control? Or do you think it’s just a matter of them getting older and start prioritizing what’s really important in how they deal with their players.

Coach Burnside: Well if you want to have a good program you gotta involve the parents. And you gotta get a boosters club. You know, I’ve built this place South Dade. Without parent involvement you can’t do it so it’s a double-edge sword. You get them involved and then they want to have a say. I always say to them, whatever you want to do, at my first meeting, “If there’s one thing you take from this meeting please listen this is what I want you to take away from it. Anything you do for this program is for the community, these kids an this school. If you think it’s going to give your son an edge, please don’t do it.” You can say that all you want, but sill, they expect. And sometimes you get wrapped up in it and they can be vicious. You can do a million things right for a kid but, like toughen him up.” I tell them some times “You think I’m an S.O.B. but you made me that way.” Kids interpret niceness as a weakness. If I start letting them come in, this guy comes in late and that guy. Next thing you know, they’re all strolling in. I’ve got to hammer them when they come late. I got to hammer ‘em. Some of them don’t understand. Parents don’t understand. They think you’re…So you got to have parents, but they’re your lynch mob as well.

Anthony: In speaking of coaching styles, is there a coaching style that you’ve seen over the years, or that you still see these days when you look across the field where you say, “That style just can’t be productive and it just can’t work.” In other words, what’s a pet-peeve that you see coaches young or old, doing that you just say, “ I would never do that particular thing.”

Coach Burnside: My biggest pet-peeve with other coaches is that I hate this unwritten stuff. The etiquette. In other words, I don’t care what someone does whether I’m ahead or behind it’s your club. If you want to work on a squeeze plan, you’re up ten nothing go a head. You want to steal, but they come in, you’re up six nothing they steel a base and all of a sudden they’re ticked off they’re throwing at the next hitter. This starts, that’s my pet-peeve. But I see the fundamental guys. You stay with the fundamentals. The grinders you stay with it. And you just stay with the fundamentals. I enjoy practice. To be honest with you, games you can take ‘em. I enjoy teaching the game. I enjoy the kids and the games, my philosophy is, practices belongs to the coaches, games belong to the kids. And I try to back off on during the games a little and let them enjoy the game. Try and stroke them a little bit once in awhile with something, hit and run, something. But let them play.

Anthony: Talk a little bit about the personal relationships you gain other coaches. Obviously you and coach Doskow, he said the very first thing he did when he took over here was retire your number here. So obviously you had an impact on him. And being one of the elder coaches I’m sure that’s several coaches around the county. How hard is it to built those friendships and then walk on the field with a competitive fire so high between you?

Coach Burnside: Well it is it makes it a little interesting. I guess the best way to answer your question is, I try and play the game, not the other team. I tell my kids that. It doesn’t make any different then who’s in that other dugout. If you play the game in the way it should be played. We’ll be in it. You won’t have a chance to win. You can’t be intimidated by anyone. If you think they’re not good you get your butt beat. If you think they’re too good you can get your butt beat. You just got to play the game. But now days it’s hard. Most of the young coaches it’s like World War III. When I was a coach, after games, Steve Hirch was at Coral Park High School. Skip Berman was at Burch High School. After our games we’d go out to dinner with the wives. And we were socially together often. Now, that’s difficult. It’s too serious. And part of it is the recruiting. To me the legislature runs the FHSAA. It’s never gonna happen, it almost happened a few years ago. If you don’t separate public from private.

Anthony: Lets hit on that for a minute. There’s one thing I wanted to talk about the new rules in Florida where these kids can basically transfer with no repercussions at all. There are kids that just transferred in January to new schools. How much do you think that’s going to change the game, especially for the public schools?

Coach Burnside: Could have a tremendous impact. But it would all be solved if you just let the public play the public and the private play the private. And it’s over with, the public you know especially in Dade County, we have a system here where you know that they control that somewhat. My philosophy is if a kid doesn’t want to be in my program, then fine, you go elsewhere.

Anthony: The MLB usually dictates how baseball is played all the way through they youth. And you know the last few years they’re getting away from the long ball being the sexy thing in baseball and getting back towards fundamentals an bunting and one- and two-run games. How much do you think that will have a trickle down effect and have you already seen a difference in how your players willingness to do some of those small things?

Coach Burnside: Well I think BBCOR bat in college baseball has changed it. You see more an more of the short game at the college level. It’s definitely changed the game. Controlling the bat is huge. And they had to but it’s still not there yet. You go to a factory, lets say the committee I’m on we had a guy come in and tell us he’s been in factories where bats are, they’re manufacturing illegal bats. All they do is put on the package for batting for homerun derby contests and matting practice only. But it’s not on the bat. And you can’t tell that bat from anything.

Anthony: So it’s just like the steroids, they’ll get out in front of it to people that are cheating.

Coach Burnside: Yeah, yeah.

Anthony: One of our goals at the High School Baseball Network is to show coaches in a different light. That’s why we do some of these Sunday Morning Chats. So, give me something that other coaches and fans, when they are seeing you in the dugout they don’t know about you. Give me something they wouldn’t get about you, just from watching you on the field.

Coach Burnside: Boy, [laughing] like a lot of yelling and screaming? I don’t know. Jim, what do you think? I’ll tell you I love to keep in touch. My thrill is to see kids go on to be successful. I have conversations weekly with players. I just talked to David Lugo, a kid who graduated last year, he’s up at Central Florida. A kid of mine that’s at South Florida, he’s not playing baseball now, he just ripped his knee out playing rugby, called him. I enjoy those relationships. And that’s my biggest thrill. Seeing kids go on. I like to teach. In my program they get a motive sheet everyday in there locker. I have a little story to tell them before a game. I try and teach life skills through the game of baseball. I think it and I tell parents, “ If your son is in my program and you want equate the value of his playing time you’re making a mistake. ‘Cause just by being in my program, he’ll be a better man. And I’m a counselor so that’s big to me and I like to make that a part of it.

Anthony: How much longer do you see yourself staying a manager and are there any goals that you have not reached that you want to reach before you head out.

Coach Burnside: No, as long as I’m enjoying it and they keep bringing me back, I think I’ll stay with it. I’d like to continue. I’m 66 so I know it’s getting there. I enjoy it. I hope to continue a few more years.

Anthony: Last question. We’ll end it with an open ended, just finish this sentence. My Idea of a perfect day on a baseball field would be…

Coach Burnside: Oh boy, I was looking at it yesterday. Green grass, white ball, blue sky. You hear the crack of the bat and just that climate. I love it.

Anthony: Alright that wraps it up, thank you and good luck this season.

Coach Burnside: Thank you.

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